Hey, AmAvocet.

Thanks for the tips.  I rolled a hobbit last night, so your sign-off is very appropriate

I was a little surprised that the Hobbit introduction seemed to be patched together from elements of the Man introduction, which follows the story of Amdir and the fall of Archet in a clear, linear fashion.  That said, when the introduction was over, I found my little hobbit minstrel quite fun to play.  Again, I like that he has his own little combat mechanic, different from the other classes.  Also, pretty decent DPS for a healer, at the low levels.  Having played a Warden in EQ2 and suffered through the insufferable hell which was solo Warden PvE combat, I can see why EQ2 recently added some more DPS to its healing classes. 

I really like the way the whole game is organized around a plot.  That's a nice feature.

Thales

Hi, everyone.

Thanks to Reginald's recommendation, I am now happily subscribed to LOTRO.  I have to admit, I shied away from this game because it looked like it had cheesy graphics and none of the sorts of classes I'd like to play.  However, having actually tried it, I find that my concerns were totally invalid.  The only cheesy graphics in the game are the character models, which aren't great, but are passable.  The world, on the other hand, is stunning.  I am playing with the DX 10 graphics maxed out on all settings, and the game runs smoothly and beautifully. 

My concern about classes was misplaced.  I have tried the hunter, the lore-master, and the rune-keeper and they're all fun.  I have been really happily surprised by the variety inherent in the class system.  In other games, the classes differ by which attacks they can use.  In LOTRO, the combat mechanics are different for different classes.  That's pretty awesome.  My rune-keeper has to watch his attunements to ensure that he can act in his role as healer or DPSer at the appropriate time.  My hunter has to remember all of his gambit combinations.  My lore-master has to pay really, really close attention to strategy in order to survive.  The classes are really unique.  I like that, like Aion, LOTRO doesn't try to have so many classes that one can't figure out how they differ. 

I am also enjoying the crafting.  Like EQ2, it's broken into many disciplines but, unlike EQ2 and more like STO, the combines are nearly instant (at least at my level), so there's no pretense of a "fun" crafting mini-game.  It's actually enjoyable.  Even harvesting is interesting, as it works differently for different classes.

I find the lore worth following, too.  Somehow I never really cared about the lore in EQ2 or Aion.  I suppose in this case, it helps to have read the books on which the game is based. 

The whole 'feel' of the game is very much up my alley, which I didn't expect, not being a huge Tolkien fan.  But I prefer Western art styles for MMOs and I like games which emphasize the good guys over the bad.  LOTRO satisfies on both of those fronts.

Anyway, I'm having a ton of fun.  Thanks for recommending LOTRO, Reginald!  Unfortunately, I rolled my toons on Landroval before you recommended Gladden.  If anyone else is playing on Landroval, my toons are Xalas, Northwood, and Gawayn.  I'm not yet sure which one will be my main.  I could use some friends in-game, though.

Take care,

Thales

Hi, Reginald.

You know, you're right: I shouldn't just reject LOTRO without trying it, especially seeing as how I have no other options at the moment.  I am downloading the client now (I've never actually played it before).

Now that I think about it, two things impress me about LOTRO.  The first is that their website reads like it was written by intelligent adults.  In my extensive browsing of MMO web sites lately, I've found so many which are clearly written by semi-literate people.  Also, LOTRO has a reputation for strong community and I expect this will only improve once it becomes free to play.  I will give it a shot.

Do you recommend a particular server?  I live in the Eastern Time Zone, if that matters.

Thanks,

Thales

[Other than EQ2, are there no other at least semi-modern PvE-centric fantasy MMO's on the market which are worth playing, assuming you like mage classes (which, in my mind, seems to rule out LOTRO, which seems to be more about stabby classes)?]

Hey, everyone.

Age of Conan has been getting some good press lately and, given that I'm without an MMO home, I thought I'd try the free trial.

I just went back and re-read Brasse's original review of the game and I have to say that, two years later, I still think all of her comments are on the mark.

Who are the people who think that AoC is a beautiful game?  I agree with Brasse that the foliage is pretty and everything, but as she said, the animations are terrible--distractingly awful.  My character runs like his feet aren't really touching the ground.  The combat animations are so hard to interpret that I can't tell what my character is doing. 

But let me get to the worst part of it: the pets.  I rolled a Stygian necromancer because I like pets.  My first pet is some ice monster which appears at random, runs around like a seven year-old girl, then disappears.  I can't control neither when it is summoned nor what it does.  Great.  My second pet, which is a permanent summon, only attacks things after I have attacked them.  A mob could beat me to death and this thing would not raise a finger.  Also, it appears to do next to no damage and, as far as I can tell, has no agro-holding ability at all.  I thought the root I got at level 5 would help, but as far as I can tell it also does nothing.  Of course, there's no animation of any kind to go along with it, so I can't even tell when it's active.

Did I mention that there are no casting animations?!  I click the button to cast a spell; if this were EQ2 or Aion, my character would wave his hands or glow or something to let me know that he's casting.  In AoC, there is just a little progress meter that fills up until, BWOOSH!, shards of ice come flying in from the sides of the screen.  What is up with that?  I find myself constantly clicking on spells that are already casting because I can't see the little progress meter against the annoyingly busy backgrounds.  This is totally inexcusable.  I mean, do the classes with swords just click a little button, watch their character stand there while the "slashing" progress bar fills, and then try to guess whether they have slashed yet?  Egads. 

Ack.  I wanted to like this game.  The re-reviews were glowing.  But I don't think I'll be able to play this game. 

I am sad.  I cannot find an MMO that suits me. FFXIV and Rift look like they might be good, but they're far from release--maybe another year or more for Rift.  Tera looks awesome, but I'm not jumping into another Korean game any time soon, thanks.  Gak.

Other than EQ2, are there no other at least semi-modern PvE-centric fantasy MMO's on the market which are worth playing, assuming you like mage classes (which, in my mind, seems to rule out LOTRO, which seems to be more about stabby classes)?   

Thanks,

Thales

[Optional automatic grouping]

Hi, everyone.

I thought I would give a little update on my experiences with Star Trek Online in the hope of encouraging some of you friendly folk to play it.  I'll try to be brief so I don't waste your time.  I want to focus on what I see as the game's major differences from other games, which are also areas of innovation, as far as I can tell with my limited MMO experience:

• Optional automatic grouping -- In STO, if someone is working on the same mission ('quest') as you in the same area, the default setting for the game is to automatically group you (you can turn this off if you like).  This is very nice.  No painful LFG for the noobs, no trying to figure out who has the same missions as you.  You don't have to work together--many of the missions are soloable--but you can if you want. 
• Fast crafting -- Have you ever noticed that 'crafting' in MMOs is painfully boring, which leads devs to try all sorts of things to make it more 'fun' by making it more annoying?  Crafting typically consists of repetition of the same set of steps to make a prescribed product which everyone can make exactly the same way.  For some reason, devs seem to think that this needs to be a really slow process.  STO doesn't pretend that crafting is fun.  It makes gathering mats part of combat and exploration.  Then it allows you to combine sets of materials instantaneously with a 0% fail rate, as far as I can tell.  If you can find the mats, you can make stuff with them instantly.  EQ2 tried to make crafting 'fun' by making it a painfully slow and error-prone mini-'game'.  Aion tried to make it 'fun' by making the mats insanely costly and the failure rate very high, so that you would spend months trying to afford mats for something and then fail on the combine, kind of like a kick in the face from the devs.  STO cuts to the chase.
• Cross between classless and class-based systems -- In STO 'you' are the combination of your character and your ship.  Your character can have any of nine classes.  You get new abilities as you level, but mainly you progress by spending skill points in a huge skill tree.  The skill trees for the different classes overlap somewhat.  However, the nice thing is that anyone can use any ship (as far as I can tell) so you can choose to be a healing-type class on a tanky type ship if that's your thing.   The flexibility to spend skill points however you want and choose any ship you want is a nice balance between overly linear character development and annoying unstructured 'sandbox' character development.  Also, I think you can keep a whole fleet of different ships and swap them when you need to, so you can change your effective class to suit the mission.
• It looks awesome -- Why is no one pointing this out?  This game looks awesome.  The character models and animations are stunning.  They really look like little people.  The clothing is perfect.  The space scenes are gorgeous (I'm picky--I'm an astronomer!).  The planetary surfaces are as nice as most of the scenes in Oblivion, which is rare for an MMO in my experience.
• You ARE a group -- Of course you can group with other humans, but when you just want to run missions on your own, you ARE a group all by yourself.  You have several (customizable) bridge officers with their own skill trees and abilities, plus lots of (non-customizable) NPC 'security' staff.  When you beam down for ground missions, you can choose who goes with you and configure them to perform various duties (healing, setting traps, blowing the crap out of Klingons).  When you're fighting space missions, you can use the skills and abilities of your bridge officers to help you.
• It feels like Star Trek. -- It really does.  Try it.  I play a Bolian.  I hail Starfleet to turn in missions.  I fight Klingons.  I supply broken-down ships with dilithium.  I get significant skill points just for exploring.  It's Star Trek, not some random sci-fi game with a Trek skin.
• The lore is interesting -- I am one of those people who doesn't read quest text or lore.  MMO lore bores me.  I get it: I need to take the Wand of Icespewing to Mountaincliff, then to Elfheim, then to Dwarfencave and, finally, kill 10 Werebeasties or else the Princess of Pinkdom will be very sad.  Got it.  But in STO, the lore is based on a world you already love and care about (if you're a Trekkie).  You want to know what's up with the Borg lately, or what's going on on Betazed.  You want to see the monastery at P'Jem.  It's interesting!

Hope that convinces some of you to give it a spin!

Thales (a.k.a. Lt. Moth)

Hey, everyone.

So, in my previously-mentioned search for the perfect PvE MMO for me, I decided to give the free trial of Star Trek Online (STO) a go.  I was really pleased.  I have heard a lot of bad stuff about this game.  But I decided to take some advice Gildan once gave me when I worried about all the people leaving EQ2 at one point--he made the very good point that it didn't matter whether *other people* enjoyed the game, as long as *I* enjoyed it.

I have to say, STO was not what I expected.  I expected something pretty hokey.  I have never played a Trek video game before.  I am a serious Trekkie and didn't want my memories of the show tarnished by some crappy game.  I didn't expect it to feel very Trek-like to me, but it did.  The character creation in this game is a serious high point.  I have never seen characters which look so realistic and, even better, so much like actual Trek-universe entities.  I surprised myself by rolling a Bolian, just because the character model was so good.

What I am really enjoying about this game is how different it is from other games I've played.  Going from EQ2 to Aion entailed a fairly small adjustment.  STO is totally new to me.  I don't understand *anything* and I *love* that. 

Ship combat looks fantastic and really "feels" like Star Trek.  I have phasers, photon torpedos, and that's it.  I fully expected the devs would have just created the same old MMO "spells", but with vaguely Trek-like names.  They haven't.  It feels like Trek.

Also, I see that in the upcoming expansion, they will have mini games and non-combat missions, which really appeal to me.  Apparently there is also a system for people like me who don't have a lot of time to group and need grouping to happen _fast_ when they have time ("fleet actions"--I know next to nothing about them yet).

I haven't subscribed yet.  I promised myself that I would finish Oblivion first before I paid for another game.  But I fully expect to be subscribing soon.

Is anyone else here playing STO?  I'd like to meet some friendly folk in-game.  So far, i haven't seen anything about choosing a server, so I don't know if I need to make some choice like that to make sure I can play with people I might know from other games.

Take care,

Thales

[prefer]

Hi, Wren.

I think you and I have very similar desires for an MMO.  We are both busy people who play MMOs as recreation, not second careers, so we don't want our precious play time wasted.   I agree, too, that the more fun non-combat activities a game has (collection quests and the like), the better.  Those kinds of options mean more ways to have fun without organizing a raid and spending five hours on it. 

I am not really leary of Korean MMOs.  As I said, Aion was virtually flawless, but for the PvP mechanic.  If it had been a PvE game, I would still be playing.  I would prefer to support a Western MMO, just because I like the style of Western MMOs (I'm not into anime) and I like to be first in line for updates.  Still, given how precious my play time is, my loyalty is to the game I most enjoy playing.

I also agree that I'd prefer a game which wasn't licensed from some other IP, especially an IP I enjoyed in its original form (e.g. Star Trek).  Also, I don't like the focus in Asian games on annoying cutesy races.  Both FFXIV and Tera have ridiculously cutesy bobble-headed races.  EQ2's gigglegibber goblins and Aion's shuggos were really at my limit for cutesy characters, and they were NPCs!  I liked EQ2's Fae, but they were more "high fantasy" than "cutesy". 

Kaid, I didn't put Rifts on the list because there's so little information available about it.  I can't even tell whether it will have a significant PvP component.  With all those rifts opening everywhere and changing the terrain, it sounds to me a lot like an MMO version of Oblivion, which would be fine with me.  It's also very pretty.  I'll add it to the list if further research reveals it to have a strong PvE focus.

Thales

[Necessities:]

Hi, everyone.

I've been doing a lot of research lately, trying to figure out what the next big PvE MMORPG might be.  I'm shopping trying to find a game that fits my personal list of qualities for a great MMORPG:

Necessities:

• Fantasy setting
• PvE focus (ability to chose a server with only consensual PvP and no major integration of PvP into the mechanics of the game)
• Diversity of races and classes
• No F2P, RMT, etc. games (subscription only)
• Lots of soloable content, so that I can actually have fun when I don't have time to LFG or raid

Optional Personal Preferences:

• A strong conjuror/pet class
• Very fine visual character customization
• Lots of character advancement paths
• Robust crafting (i.e. crafting produces useful items without investment of near-infinite resources)
• LFG system that works well
• Lots of guild tools in-game

So far, I have only found a few games that satisfy my list of necessities.  I thought I'd post them here (and try to keep this list updated) in case you're interested.  I'd post this on a site like mmorpg.com, but I don't want to argue with trolls.

Tera Online

This one seems to meet all of my requirements except possibly having lots of soloable content.  That remains to be seen.  As for my "wants", well, there isn't enough information out yet to tell.  The main problem I forsee with it is that, as a Korean MMO, it might suffer the same sort of development lag that Aion does.  In principle, that doesn't have to be a problem.  But when the kiddies in North America see their Korean counterparts get updates before they do, they tend to rage quit.  It also seems to have cribbed some races and classes from the next title on the list.

Another nice feature of this game is the smaller group size: 5 instead of the usual 6, so it should be easier to get groups.

Release date is probably early 2011.

Final Fantasy XIV

This one does seem to meet all of my requirements.  It's sure to make a big splash.  I will very likely give it a spin.  It also satisfies many of my "wants", including a conjuring class, multiple methods of character advancement, and lots of character customization options. 

Release date is late 2010.

The main problem I have in trying to find more games to add to this list is that it's really hard to tell a PvP game from a PvE game.  On MMORPG.com, both EQ2 and Aion are listed as PvP games (as are almost all games).  I think I saw people duel maybe five times in years of playing EQ2, whereas hourly ganking and the overwhelming focus on realm vs. realm conflict made Aion unplayably stupid for me. 

I will keep poking around.  Let me know if this list interests anyone.

Thales

Hey, Wren.

Good to hear from you!  I see that Puchi is level 87--congrats!

Yeah, I miss you guys in EQ2, too.  I can assure you that, should a big new PvE fantasy-style game come out, I will be ready to try it with you!  Finding people you enjoy playing with is clearly key to getting the most out of a game. 

I agree that it's best if there are abundant solo options.  In Aion, you run into massive soloing roadblocks which cause your progress to crawl to a halt if you don't have a regular group to play with.  You make very slow progress toward the next level while trying not to go broke paying to rez yourself over and over.  It's pretty painful.   I have learned that, when PvP is an option in a game, people tend to prefer it over PvE, so PvE stagnates.  Even if you don't prefer PvP, you have to try to get PvP gear just so you can have a chance of surviving the constant random ganking while you're trying to accomplish PvE goals.  If they took the PvP out of Aion, so that people focused more on instances and less on realm-vs-realm PvP, it would be basically a perfect game.  It's an amazing template for a wickedly good successor to Everquest. 

After I played Aion, I tried playing Oblivion, which is a single-player game.  As I expected, after the initial thrill of being able to solo everything, and so to make rapid progress whenever I had time to play, it got a little boring playing by myself 100% of the time.  I stopped playing it when I realized it was basically DOOM with prettier graphics and a more complicated story. 

I will certainly post on these forums if I find another good game to try.  I'm sure one will come along eventually.

Take care,

Thales

Hey Brasse!

Thanks for the inside scoop!  I'm sad to hear that EQ Next isn't very far along in development.  It seems like there is something of a gap in the market right now that it could fill.  I mean, has there been another successful AAA-rated PvE fantasy MMORPG released in the last few years?  I can't think of one.  According to mmodata.net, the overwhelmingly most popular MMOs right now are, in order, WoW, Aion, Runescape, and the two Lineage games.  It looks like people strongly prefer fantasy PvP games.  <sigh>

I hope FFXIV is amazing.

Thales

Hey, everyone!

Long-time, no-post.  I hope you are all well.  I see that activity on this site has fallen off.  That's too bad.  You have (had?) a great community here!

Last time I posted here, I was getting into Aion.  I have since gotten out of it.  It was a totally different experience from my only prior MMO experience, EQ2.  It was fun for a few months, mainly while I was gaming in the protected newb areas.  However, open PvP and the extreme scarcity of gold made progression way less fun than in EQ2.  If I wasn't getting endlessly ganked by people 20 levels higher than me, I was scrabbling to earn enough gold to pay off my experience debt from dying.  I've since done some pretty in-depth research into all the other MMOs I could find and have concluded that none of the current ones are for me.  I'm pretty firmly set against games that have a significant PvP component, and definitely not *open* PvP.  I also don't want a game that doesn't have mentoring.  One of the nice things about EQ2 was that, years and years on, people were still playing the low-level content in groups.  All three guilds I was in in my short time in Aion collapsed in large part because the guild members could not group together once their levels achieved a certain dispersal.  You could roll an alt, but you'd have to keep rolling new alts in perpetuity if you wanted to be able to do the low-level content with new friends. 

Anyone have any inside information on when we might see a successor to EQ2?  I have concluded that EQ2 was essentially the right game for me after all, but I somehow can't bring myself to re-subscribe after leaving.  I gather that Vanguard was meant to be the spiritual successor to EQ1, but it never took off.  What else does that leave?  FFXIV? 

Thales

Hi, all.

I played Aion pretty heavily this weekend and was really impressed with it.  I have been playing my cleric as my main but I also played my spritmaster (the conjuring class) this weekend.  I grouped a lot on the cleric.

The grouping dynamic in Aion is pretty nifty.  Because there are only 8 classes, a 6-slot group can be made well-rounded very easily.  In particular, because the sole healing class, clerics, are actually robust (as Gordion just pointed out), you can have two of them in a group without your DPS falling through the floor.  The tank doesn't have to spend all of her time defending the healers and, with two healers, one can go DPS when not needed.  My cleric wears chain armor and caries a mace and shield.  He holds his own and I am having a crapload of fun with that. 

Gear in Aion is so awesome I'd need swear words to express my enthusiasm with sufficient vigor.  If you go to the area above the crafting area in Sanctum (I can't remember what it's called), you can see all the cool armor available to end-game types and try it all on.  It looks so amazing.  The divine armor, which I think is for appearances only, also kicks supreme ass.  You have to *see* this game.  It's also fun customizing your gear.  I love playing the Manastone Shuffle.  You can set many of the stats of your gear by equipping it with manastones.  Unlike the adornments in EQII, manastones in Aion actually substantially alter the stats of the gear and they are freely available.  They drop from mobs routinely.  The challenge isn't in finding them, it's in getting the right setup.  Do I want 30% more HP or better defense or stronger attack skills?  Hmmm....

Now, about the spiritmasters.  Why the hate for us?  Why does every game always have a line in the manual somewhere which reads something like "While not as powerful as Sorcerors/Wizards/etc, Spiritmasters/Conjurors/Beast Masters/etc. are very useful"?  This just makes people think the class is useless.  Well, my Spiritmaster is definitely not useless.  If he is a second-tier DPSer, I'd hate to run into a first-tier one in PvP.  He kills *fast*.  Lots of fun to play, except for the need to rest frequently to recover MP.  Guess I will be learning to craft mana potions.  Also, his pets look awesome and he has *two* tanky type pets, one high DPS tank for soloing and one low DPS tank for replacing the MT in a group in a pinch.  Isn't that nice?  A conjuror who is *intended* to be able to pick up the role of tank.  Now that's the respect I'm looking for!  In fact, I think every class but sorceror can tank in a pinch in Aion, with the right gear.  I have seen chanters and assassins tank just fine, with two healers. 

See you around.

Thales

Hey, everyone.

Thanks for all of the tips!  Just yesterday I finally got into an area suitable for grouping (the Tursin Outpost area in Verteron).  I died, um, like 5 times.  I am almost bankrupt from paying soul healing fees. 

I have realized that grouping in Aion is nothing like grouping in EQII.  Either the necessary key commands are very obscure and not well documented (I downloaded the game and it didn't come with a manual) or the combat mechanics are going to take some getting used to.  I can't, for example, assist and heal the main tank at the same time.  I have to keep pressing ~ to switch between attacking and healing.  Oh well--at least I haven't let the tank die yet.  I spent an embarrassing hour with a group of strangers last night, during which I managed to twice kill myself by running into areas I didn't realize were so dangerous, fly to the wrong part of the continent, and then turn myself into a bird for five minutes.  I hate being a noob.  I miss being halfway decent in EQII

Gordion, I'm really kicking myself for not rolling a character on Fregion now.  The game told me to do that, it said that's where all the popular kids were playing these days and that I should really, REALLY want to play there, but I rolled my characters on Ariel because it has several LGBT-positive Elyos legions.  Of course, I haven't joined up with any of them because I don't know them from Adam and have no reason to want to hang out with them   I will look into transferring over to Fregion.  Failing that, I will roll a templar on Fregion.

Perragin, I see your problem with PvP.  I hadn't thought of the slow-fingers issue because I can generally press the buttons fast enough to get byf, but you're right that there are lots of folks who can't.  It looks like there's plenty of PvE content, though. 

Thanks again,

Thales

Hi, Reginald.

Thanks for the tip.  Do you know if my own personal store stays open after I log out?  Or do I have to leave my character logged in and my store open for people to buy from me?

Thanks,

Thales

Hi, Perragin.

I am glad that you like Aion so far.  Of course, you won't get the full experience until you reach level 10 and become a Daeva.  Then you can fly and craft and use the resources of your capital city.

I have discovered more reasons to like Aion.  Again, I am comparing to EQII here.

Aion has really nice music, which is something I really appreciated about EQII.  I actually listen to the game when I play it, so I like that it sounds nice.

I have started crafting in Aion and I have to say, it's infinitely better than it was in EQII.  My only concern about Aion crafting is that it's so easy it might lead to a very poor market for the resulting goods.  There may have been a very good reason why EQII crafting was made to be so dull.  I will find out when I try to sell more stuff.

I have switched my main class to Cleric.  Clerics are the primary healers in Aion.  They are like all six EQII healing classes rolled into one.  You can heal very well, but you can also equip chain armor, a sword, and a shield.  People say they are hard to solo, but mine isn't too bad. 

Some aggravations:

Everything in Aion costs something.  You have to pay to zone (if there's a free way, I haven't found it).  You have to pay to remove XP loss incurred by debt.  You have to pay to teleport within zones.  You have to pay to list an item on the broker, even if it doesn't sell.  I'm a little more cash-strapped than I was in EQII.

I am level 13/50 now and I haven't run across any instances.   I'm not sure what counts as an instance in Aion.  The people in chat are mostly asking for groups for outdoor zones, as far as I can tell. 

Aion's broker interface is less well-developed than EQII's was by the time I left EQII.  It's more like the interface EQII had when it launched.

That's all for now.  If you want to find me in-game, I'll be playing my Cleric, Xal, or my Spirit Master, Lantar, on the Ariel server.

Have fun in all your virtual worlds!

Thales