Afghanistan - no comic at all?

[Kwee]

These are quotes from the related article:

"introduce Taliban-style Islamic morality codes banning women from wearing make-up in public"

?Women and girls are obliged to not wear make-up, wear suitable dresses and observe hijab (veil) while at work or classrooms,?

"It also aims to ban women dancers performing during concerts and other public events"

"Men and young boys must avoid wearing bracelets, necklaces, ?feminist dresses,? and hair-bands"

I am mortified that it wasn't 'til 1920 that women were given the vote in America.  I mean, COME ON!  Antietam, the revolution and the 1880's and it wasn't til 1920???  So, men are jerks.  But read that stuff.  That is just wrong, and I refuse to believe that even in the context of a code that seeks to preserve family values you could reasonably expect a virtuous girl to not ever wear make-up, "certain" dresses, or a veil in classrooms.

What's scary is that we have black boys and crew-cut white guys wearing "bling" and this blood-thirsty, self-avowed "Scythe of God" 1200-year-old religion is telling them not to.

The bling guys in New Jersey might hassle you.  The Taliban will kill your sister if she can't produce 4 witnesses that prove she *wasn't* raped.

I'm sorta tired of all this news about some sect or other that argues whether or not the Scopes trial should be re-argued, ad-nauseum.  There's God or there's not, I think.  But you don't get to kill or hack people's hands off based on that.  If some folks want to live in the hills or wherever and believe GOD told them something. . . FINE.  Build an arc, do whatever, but I do NOT believe that any belief you have gives you the right to maintain that belief over me.

Period.

My God, or Al Gore, or dope-besotted hippy-surfer-hey-dude-let's-all-love-each-other-and-hey!-did-you-smoke-this? religion is just as good as yours and my deeply held beliefs are just as valid, but I don't get to push them on you.

Don't Tread the <beer> On Me.
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Sorry.  I've read Runciman's "Crusades" and many other texts, including lots about what the Catholic Church did to the Cathars.

I have no respect for what "respected" religions or "popular" movements do to individuals who don't believe what they believe.

I also don't have much respect for anyone who tells me anything I don't believe matches what's going on.

Go ahead and believe what you will.  And do what your belief tells you.  But don't do it to me.
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THAT said, i.e., "leave me the <beer> alone and let me believe what I believe," there IS a Western culture built around the Catholic Church.  As much as we now want to disown a monolithic view of the world and kinda despise what the church was, you can't doubt that most of the "modern" scientific and humanitarian viewpoints of the modern age came from Italy, Germany, England, France and the nations under Catholic rule.

Granted, China, the Middle East and even New Guinea and other cultures have much to teach us.  But much of the "modern world" and technology has sprung forth from the Western - Catholic Church-protected - world.  Rousseau, Blake, Jefferson, Adams and most others admit they felt that a civilisation or populace had to have a belief in God in order to make their ideals of a republic or democracy work.

These days, we reject the idea of any sort of demogoguic deity, but we haven't yet replaced "GOD says don't kill," - or lie or cheat or steal - with a suitably powerful and inclusive . . . thing.

After all, if it isn't GOD telling you not to do bad, then why listen?



<edited a bit for language. Make beer, not expletives>

[Bearmug]

Whenever a way of life is attacked, it will do one of two things: Go with attackers, or go even further away. Mob mentality is very close to a child mentality, reacts on instinct (but while child reacts on curiosity, hunger and cold, mob reacts mostly on fear and anger). You can guide it gently, or you can break it and force it, but going between those two options will make problems.

About christians.... consider how many civilisations it ruined, and think what might have happened if it didn't: We might have found cure for cancer and immortality centuries ago. Medicine and culture in muslim Spain was ages in front of anything christian 'civilisation' had, chinese also had very advanced culture, medicine and science, and in the end were pushed back constantly by europeans. Same for India, Japan and even Rome.

I especially like the book 'Pavane' by Keith Roberts, alternate history where England was taken over by Spain, and roman Catholicism had free reign to spread.

We will never know what would have been, so kinda pointless to discuss *goes off to get more beer*

PS. not saying it is right, but every action has a reaction, and sometimes people on recieving end are not the ones that started it all.

[Kwee]

Agreed, Bearmug.  The original post is an example of why I delete posts.

[Atherin]

The crazy/rediculous/infernal/insane system of government we have here in the U.S. is the worst political system ever attempted.


Except for every other one!

[Reliant75]

These actions by Afghanistan, middle east, the world only clarify that people will do anything to feel comfortable and have control over their domain.  I find it deplorable that another culture would take the rights of others, of its citizenry, to make themselves feel better, superior, and exulted.  I am a firm believer in these United States because, as faulty as we are ("big business", bush, ad nausea)  we are BY far the standard of which the world, in most cases, wishes to be.

That said it is not the right of any country, no matter how horribly the other treats its citizenry, to interfere in another country.  To interfere in such a countries affair may bring eternal conflict within that nation or the nation of the offense.  ie Iraq, Vietnam.. for the US Indochina, Africa for France, and lets not discuss Britain  or the former soviet union.  it would allow other countries the right to interfere in countries they feel the need to , even if the world says otherwise. Ie US Iraqi policy. 

These countries, if they feel that this activity is hostile or abhorrent, then should replace their government. If we feel we should help them then do so from a distance and nod not direct interference, for if we do , it will become our problem, our shoulders, to bare.  The united States had such a problem with Britain and, with no outside help other than a few French vessels, replaced the brittish government on America with one, we felt was ours.  IF a people, so distraught with their government cannot fight for their rights, why should we? 

It is not up to us, the "free" world to decide the fate of others, but their own right to do it for themselves, we will help them and embrace them but we can not interfere.

[Redwohc]

I have to agree with the Taliban on this one.  Banning video games is a good idea.  I know some of us love them and get a lot of enjoyment from video games.  But when I look at all of the time I've wasted playing them I think it owuld be a good idea to ban them.  The Taliban has banned other things that make sense, too.  You can't fly a kite in Afghanistan.  That makes perfect sense to me.  Could there be a bigger waste of time than kite flying?  I for one believe that it is inherently evil to take a child kite flying and try to pass it off as some sort of fun activity.  What does that say to the youth of today.  It says "We don't care about you or your happiness".  Here are some sticks, newspaper and string.  Now go have fun.  I can't spend any real money to show you a good time because I wasted all of your college money on beer.

The Taliban also wants to keep women in their place.  I agree with that, too.  Women can't have jobs, get an education or express their opinions in Afghanistan.  What a relief!  When was the last time a woman said anything worthwhile.  Don't even get me started on who they vote for.  Sheesh!  The Taliban knows there are only two things a woman can do: make babies and dinner.  That's how it is around my house.  What I say goes.  As long as that's okay with my wife.

What I think we're missing here is that it's important for the government to tell us what to do.  When we think for ourselves we only get into trouble.  We eat the wrong foods, watch the wrong shows (how did "Rosanne" stay on the air?!) and do things that make other people think badly of us.  No, we can't take care of ourselves.  It's obvious.  We need politicians and large governments to think for us and manage the day to day details of our lives.  They should make our health care decisions and manage our money for us.  We can't do it.  I for one would be much happier if they could just tell me what to think.  I thought somoene wrote about about something like that once...

If you ask me those Taliban guys have it all figured out.  If you don't believe them just ask them.  If they feel you don't agree with them they might not do anything.  Or they might torture and kill you and your family.  But hey, next election cycle just vote them out and get some new people in there.  It doesn't matter if they control the army, the economy and the media.  You just have to buck up and overthrow them.  It happens all the time.  Most people in the world won't stand for living under the thumb of some evil Third World dictator.  Well, except everyone in the Third World.  But that's just a technicality.  Get your rocks and sticks and take your country back!

Viva la Kites!

Redwohc

[Kwee]

http://swg.the-consortium.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12810

[Bearmug]

http://swg.the-consortium.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12810

Needs log in to see.

[Brasse]

Great, Kwee NECROED a post in the wee hours.

Bearmug, the link leads to some more Kwee-posts which he may or may not decide to repost here. You are right, they require a log in to the TCON forums. I'd copy them over, but as he linked it at 2:39 am, he may have since decided he doesn't want them read after all.

I guess we'll find out.

[Bearmug]

No need to copy, just saying in case Kwee didn't notice .

[Kwee]

Sorry, Bearmug.  I didn't realize the forum I had posted in required a login.  But Brasse is right, it's just another series of late-night rants that really just gave me an excuse to write something rather than promote real discourse.

A lot of people don't like those kinds of posts - who can blame them? - so I tend to put them in obscure forums and tack them onto threads that people have already decided to ignore.
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Here's the gist of what I posted:

I believe that both parties have failed at:

Nuclear energy
Offshore drilling
Curtailing "pork"
Ending farm subsidies
Ending Ethanol subsidies
Ending or "fixing" Social Security and Medicaid
Establishing law and moral guidelines about immigration
Ensuring private property rights vis a vis the 5th amendment and courts

Notice, I say nothing about marriage, abortion, or any other popular but divisive social issue.

To heck with Reid, Pelosi, Buchanan, Boxer, Feinstein, Gingrich (who is not in Congress) Lieberman, McCain, Clinton, Obama or anyone else who purports to represent us who cannot or will not deal with these manifest problems of our times.

They have FAILED - Republicans and Democrats - to deal with issues we've known have been problems for YEARS!  Why re-elect them?  Why listen to them?  I don't want to shoot them and I am not advocating shooting them, but what do we do?

Thomas Jefferson said that blood had to be spilled every once in awhile to prevent tyranny.  Looking at how our current representatives are NOT representing our interests, he was right.  But we're "nice" and don't kill people, so what do we do?

The first option is to just not vote.  But that means that each smaller vote just puts the same people back in charge.

I'd suggest instead we go to anywhere these people are speaking publicly and shout them down.  When McCain starts talking, shout him down about the fairness of the McCain-Feingold bill, or his thoughts about amnesty, or his ridiculous idea that ANWAR is like the Grand Canyon.

When Pelosi or Feinstein speak, ask them, point-blank, HOW taxing oil companies will help lower gas prices or develop alternative sources.  And ask why they promote universal health-care when they already have a better health-care system than 92% of Americans.

SHOUT at Buchanan why we should listen to him about "laying off" Iran when he says we were "pre-emptive" about Hitler and Stalin.  (I may be wrong about this one.  Pat Buchanan is odd.)

Shout at Obama, why the heck do you think you will do any better "talking" to the mullahs than anyone else?  Maybe he WILL do better!  But if so, why?

Shout at ALL of them: Why not nuclear?  If Social Security is so great, why not fix it?  Why are you giving farm subsidies to giant corporations?  Ethanol sucks and raises the price of food, why are you supporting it?  And why - oh WHY? - are you including THOUSANDS of stupid little "earmarks" - PORK - for stupid little things in your congressional districts that we KNOW won't matter and that let you get re-elected because you seem to be powerful and give people something for nothing?

Finally, shout at ALL of them: "HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT KELO VERSUS CITY OF NEW LONDON?"  Ask them why private property is no longer a fundamental principal of the United States.  Ask them, "WHY DIDN'T YOU SPEAK OUT?"  None of them did.

NONE of them did.   

[Kilum]

we are BY far the standard of which the world, in most cases, wishes to be.

You think? I was quiet happy without McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken and American business models. Thank you very much. I also liked our political system before they tried to model the House of Lords on your 'Senate'

What you have said is pure assumption.

[Redwohc]

we are BY far the standard of which the world, in most cases, wishes to be.

You think? I was quiet happy without McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken and American business models. Thank you very much. I also liked our political system before they tried to model the House of Lords on your 'Senate'

What you have said is pure assumption.

You're right, Kilum.  It is pure assumption.  It's also assupmtion to assume there's something wrong with assumptions

I don't think Kwee is very far off on that.  True, that's my assumption.  But I don't think he's trying to be a chest-thumping, flag waving Yankee as much as make a point about what needs to be fixed.  I'm sure you love your country just as I'm sure Kwee wasn't taking a shot at it or any other.  But implying you have a problem with the "American business model" based on McDonald's and KFC is like me saying I don't like Brits because I don't drink tea.  Personally I liked our Congress much more before they became Socialists

The U.S. is not everyone's favorite country, especially right now.  I get that.  Like it or not howver, it is still the place that more people emmigrate to than any other country in the world.  It is the heart of the world economy and drives the world money machine.  It's very hard to argue that.  Does that make us great people?  Not really.  Doesn't make us bad people either.  It just is what it is.  Those aren't statements of virtue or vice.  They are merely numerical facts.

I think, and this is just an assumption, that most of the world expects a higher standard from the U.S. than most other countries.  I believe this because when we ***k up everyone says somethign about it.  Maybe they just like to hate us.  I don't think that's true because it doesn't say much for the people doing it and only assumes the worst about them.  I like to give people more benefit of the doubt.

My point is that I think all Kwee is saying is that we need to make some changes in our system because it's been taken over by self-serving people who say whatever it takes to stay in power.  The rest of the world, and I'm being very general here, expects more from the U.S.  In saying that I'm in 100% agreement with Kwee.  No offense or slight intended toward anyone else or any other country. 

There's nothing wrong with having some pride in your country.  What continues to astonish me is that when almost any other country claims to be great you don't hear a lot of griping to the contrary.  When we say it here we're often labeled as arrogant jack*sses.  Oh well.  Don't get me wrong, I am and arrogant jack*ss.  But I believe I'm mre the exception than the rule

Redwohc

[Kwee]

<sigh> On sober reflection, I'm wrong to suggest shouting them down.  With one or two exceptions, I've emailed all the politicians I listed above and received canned, self-serving responses from all of them.  But shouting an opponent down is not right.

err. . . Red?  Kilum was quoting Reliant, not me. 

[Redwohc]

My mistake   Hey!  First one ever!     I was overdue.

In that case I completely disagree with everything Kwee said in this post or any other, past, present or future.  j/k Kwee 

Redwohc